Thesis, Automattic, and WordPress

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Written By Brian Krogsgard

54 thoughts on “Thesis, Automattic, and WordPress”

  1. I’d like to give you a virtual pat on the back for this comprehensive writeup. It’s a very good piece of work that will be a valuable resource as this schoolyard fight continues. The biggest winners are going to be the attorneys, but hopefully when the dust settles and it’s all said and done, WordPress will be better for it, despite the sideshow qualities of the case. Thanks for putting this together.

  2. By far the best write up I’ve seen. Not just write up: best discussion period.

    Well done, sir.

  3. The behavior of Matt (and Automattic) recently has made me finally start to move my development over to another platform. I’ll likely start doing all of my future work in Conrete5 and Laravel. I spent the past several years writing code for WordPress. It’s disappointing that Automattic believes they have the right to control my work and how I make a living off of it. It’s probably for the best anyway. WordPress is still catering towards bloggers and other non-technical users, making it a poor choice for developers that want to build more functional websites with better performance and fewer bugs. Recent decisions like bringing favicons in to the core and pushing functionality in to the customizer show the future WordPress is headed towards.

  4. Great write up Brian. I would stop short of calling the behavior between Matt and Chris ‘childish’ which is a word I tend to avoid, but that’s a matter of preference. There is certainly a lot of animosity between them. I have found myself rather passionately engaged in the debate.

    I agree with, in fact always have agreed with Matt, on the GPL issue. The GPL has thrived and theme authors have flourished under the concept of the license, and having been around open source projects for many years now I am quite adamant about protecting the spirit of what the GPL and other open source licences represent and how they benefit societies. Mark Jaquith did a great job of explaining how core and themes are inextricably linked as as one large running series of processes. Attempting to separate them gets into lame territory really quickly if you ask me.

    I am most adamant about the danger of attempting to patent common processes used in either WordPress or associated OSS libraries as personal inventions. You have pointed out much of the risk involved. We will be there to challenge this patent as an additional third party of interest if it goes that far. I hope others will as well.

    Finally, I really appreciate the part you included about the REST API. Matt, just the other day, apparently revealed that he now has apprehensions about including WP-REST API into core, and I am fairly certain this his objections are driven, at least in part, by the risk this may pose on the GPL for WordPress. I for one hope he does not block this feature inclusion because it is really one of the few truly large steps forward in WordPress core in some time, in my opinion. I really think it would solve a great number of problems, including some of the festering licensing issues.

    Things will work themselves out. They always do. The passion involved between the parties here is not necessarily a bad thing, although it is sometimes rather sad and ugly to watch unfold. The community is strong, and thanks to folks like you working hard to keep us informed we will continue to move forward. Thanks again Brian.

    • That Matt has a problem with the REST-API because it may cause problems for GPL is exactly what is wrong with the whole issue.

      GPL is always paraded as a the best way to protect developers and users and allow them to have the software they want on their own terms for ever. Go Team!

      But now we see one of the unintended consequences of choosing the wrong license for the wrong piece of software (UW notes that GPL may be better suited to monolithic software, which is not what WP is). In order to avoid completely invalidating all the work Matt has done to protect his understanding of GPL, he is forced to kill or remove features that his users want. In this case, its a feature that would also make WP a more useful piece of software.

      And let me be clear, the REST API does undo everything Matt has done in the last few weeks, so I expect it to hit a very large brick wall.

      The REST-API turns WP into little more than a highly specialized Database. Its Couch-DB with a build-in Admin (if only that were true… but you get the idea).

      If I wanted to break WP’s grip on my business (to be clear I do very little work professionally with it unless I’m building a website for some non-profit or small business that I happen to know) all I need to do is build a NodeJS app that requests assets via the REST API, renders them with the JS template language of your choice and then relies either on an internal cache (redis or memcached or you-pickem) or Varnish reverse proxy or what ever. I can license that however I like.

      Now I can do some really useful things that WP has never really let me do (not easily at least), like have multiple custom post types that are like POSTs not Pages and interleave them into a single stream (Post Formats as they should be).

      And, since my customer are working in an environment where security matters (for example), I can make the Admin available only inside the firewall, and allow the NodeJS app no permission to write via the REST-API and I’ve solved a large part of the confused deputy problem that WP suffers from. I’ll have to give up (or provide a different mechanism for) visitor contributed content, but for a bank its worth it.

      Or if I wanted to go through the effort, I could replace the entire Admin interface and do things the way I wanted. I would be happy to publish any of the plugins I needed to make that happen under GPL, and then I’ll use the CLI to install them. Now I can add other very useful features that WP can’t easily add (like allowing my Page-like custom post types to be parents or children of a different post type).

      And if you’re worried about the average user being able to install all that themselves, I wouldn’t worry. Anyone who is going to want to use my system isn’t going to be on shared hosting so we can avoid that although shared hosting companies might opt to make it a part of their offerings. Plus it shouldn’t be that hard to script the entire setup and have prebuilt VM images or even a Docker container preconfigured to your requirements.

      This thought experiment makes me wonder how much of the #WPDrama (to borrow a tag) has to do with defending the GPL and how much of it has to do with protecting the business interests of Automattic?

      Who’s asking “Cui bono?”

      • That Matt has a problem with the REST-API because it may cause problems for GPL is exactly what is wrong with the whole issue.

        Matt has made it very clear that he does not have a problem with the REST API due to the GPL. Also, I don’t think defending the GPL and business interests of Automattic are related at all here, or opposed to one another particularly.

        • I can’t see how he doesn’t have a GPL related issue with it given the ways he’s defended it. I mean, I get the duty part of it (https://xkcd.com/386/) but he’s gone a lot farther than most would for an abstract principle.

          I’m not sure that his defence of GPL isn’t motivated by business interests, to some extent. One of the side effects is that it makes it more difficult for others to directly compete with their VIP services. I noticed that they do not make a big deal about GPL for assets in this context (https://vip.wordpress.com/documentation/brand-your-new-website/), for example.

          Look at other decisions for a pattern. Recently the theme review team decided to crack down on themes the provide functionality that could/should be in plugins (galleries, static home pages, etc), yet its a feature of VIP themes (https://vip.wordpress.com/documentation/anatomy-of-a-vip-theme/#plugin-locations). Code organization aside, why is it bad for community users and good for VIP customers for a theme to include functionality?

          If other aspects of the WP theme landscape are being managed in favour of Automattic then it would seem to be reasonable to ask to what extent the defence of GPL benefits Automattic at the expense of others. They’re free to do it, I just don’t think the community should be required to stand and clap politely when they do.

          • That nature of WordPress.com VIP is drastically different from a typical hosting environment. Their VIP clients have a code-reviewed process that includes utilized approved plugins and custom (reviewed) plugins, but due to the hosting environment setup, requires the plugins-in-themes workaround. It has nothing to do with true theme functionality and everything to do with WordPress.com’s setup.

            Your arguments are formed in a way that make it difficult to refute each point, but I’ll blanket it in that I believe you are misguided, though your stance is understandable. I just think, quite strongly, that you are wrong in this case.

          • If my stance is understandable, then surely it comes down to poor communication on the part of those who have given the impressions. I don’t know anyone in this personally so all I can talk about is what I see. I know that there is a desire to see everyone on one side as inherently good actors (sure we made some mistakes, but our intentions were good) and on the other as bad, but I can see no reason why that has to be the case.

            There is a saying, the gist of which is that the heart is, above all else, self-deceptive. Everyone in this discussion thinks they are in the right and the other is in the wrong. Sober, honest, self-reflection typically reveals that there is less right in our own position and more right in the other’s than we are willing to admit.

            And, yes, that applies to me.

            Ultimately, I don’t really care. I use tools because they’re useful, not because I have any particular opinion, one way or the other, about the people behind those tools. Nasty people make useful things and pleasant people make useless crap.

  5. Well written. Props.

    Also, when it comes down to the legal aspects here, it’s all about “derivative works”. Totally. So, if you’re still interested, you might want to focus any further investigation there. Because that’s really the sticking point. It’s not as clear cut as one might think. Well, for themes, it’s actually extremely clear cut, but regardless, that’s the big thing to examine. Form your own opinions, after you look into it deeper. That’s your follow up point. 🙂

  6. That is a very good article indeed, I really want to translate it to Portuguese, a few folks here in Brazil would love to read it. (May I?)

    The link for the PDF of the Patent Application is broken, check it out when you can.

  7. Excellent write-up and discussion of this argument and the larger picture, which I think is easy to overlook. I do think the key is in derivative works, as Otto points out in a previous comment.

    Thanks for an excellent post!

  8. Wow, best writeup I’ve ever read about this topic.

    Obviously, everyone that has being part of the fight lost something! There is also a big lesson for Thesis developers who’ve lost their business as a result.

  9. At first I said to myself: not another article on this already spoken subject. I was wrong ? – I’m glad that I read it.

    A very well done write up and a pleasant reading. Thank you very much for taking your time by putting all those informations together. Everybody should educate them self more on those matters and this article is a “bright line” in doing so.

    Tanks and have a nice day,
    Luigi

  10. Matt is really defending the GPL and users’ and developers’ rights here. Without the GPL there would be no WordPress ecosystem at all. One of the greatest success factors for the WordPress system is the GPL. If you have an issue with that, take your business elsewhere. Nobody is forcing you to do business in the WordPress ecosystem, but if you, you are forced to release under GPL – which is what makes the wheels turn here.

    BTW: Yes, Microsoft could arguably stake claim to every program ever written in C# if it was released under GPL. But it’s not, so the argument is void.

    Pearson was granted some rights under certain conditions, but he failed the meet the conditions. By not following the conditions, he was not given the rights to create a derivative work in the first place. He is free to spend his time elsewhere.

    Regarding the domain issue, well, cry me a river.

  11. Great article, Brian. I understand Pearson’s behavior, but honestly did not expect it from Matt. Hopefully this will work itself out in due time, without damaging the WordPress ecosystem and image.

  12. Wow — just got done reading all this. Thanks for the research and this awesome article Brian. So glad to be a PostStatus Partner and Member to support your work 🙂

  13. Great write up. I agree with the sentiment that this raises the tone of the discussion and presents the issues well. This is pretty much what every day is like as a PostStatus Member. Great conversations with great people about the issues that matter. Glad to be part of it.

  14. Honestly, This is something i must say…. Took me hours to read and I love this line lol “Mullenweg has the motivation, resources, and ability to squash Pearson”

    Seriously this needs attention… Thanks for making me get an inkling of whats happening..

  15. Brian,

    This is a fantastic article and I’m going to urge anyone who is even remotely interested in the topic to sit down and read this (undistracted, even).

    I’ve been a fan of Post Status for a long time, but this post is arguably the best post you’ve published – it’s well-researched, balanced, and presents a lot of evidence that many of us wouldn’t have the time (or know how) to find.

    Regardless of what people take away from this regarding the parties involved, props on such a good piece. This is legitimate WordPress journalism :).

    Keep up the good work, man.

  16. This has to be said and it’s been tough to track various snippets here and there along with reviewing the history. Thanks Brian for taking the time to write this up for us to get the full “download.”

  17. Thank you for the good summary. The patent application is the most troubling and I think it needs to be aggressively challenged.

    The GPL is the bill of rights for users. I like the idea of defining the WordPress community as those who embrace and operate within the spirit of the GPL. If you release code with a proprietary license you are choosing to separate yourself from the community.

  18. What a great wrap-up of the story.

    This story must get the attention of anyone having a WP-related business. Automattic is at the top of the chain and it is important to know and understand what it means no matter if what they do is right or wrong.

    It can impact you more than you think.

  19. Thank you for writing the most comprehensive and objective view on issue conversation to date. Took me a couple of sittings to read through it (just because legalese is hard to digest). But this is an important issue for us in the WordPress community. To simply blurt out allegiance on one side or the other is as childish as our two main characters.

    I equally respect idealism and free enterprise but when wrapped in this drama its hard to stomach. A tad of humility and forgiveness in this scenario could fix things.

  20. @BJORN – you say that “Yes, Microsoft could arguably stake claim to every program ever written in C# if it was released under GPL. But it’s not, so the argument is void.”

    However the argument is not whether C# is GPL, it’s whether code written in C# would have to inherit the same license terms as Microsoft’s C# compiler.

    For me, if Matt is so eager to press home the point that themes and plugins *are* derivative works of WordPress then perhaps he should amend the wording of the licence from its current form: “There is some legal grey area regarding what is considered a derivative work, but we feel strongly that plugins and themes are derivative work and thus inherit the GPL license.”

    Feeling strongly about something doesn’t make a legal grey-area go away.

    Interestingly Matt doesn’t feel that WordPress needs to inherit the same GPL terms of the PHP licence – which it relies upon.

    Matt feels also feels strongly about people registering domains with the name ‘wordpress’ in them. Doesn’t mean people aren’t legally free to do so though.

    Buying thesis.com seems petty and too much like double-standards to me.

    Personally I won’t be buying a thing from Automattic. The company doesn’t need me to – they obviously have money to waste.

  21. Thanks so much for doing the work that’s resulted in this comprehensive article! I really enjoy reading your stuff, as it shows a lot of careful consideration.

    “The way this debate has occurred is bad for WordPress. Neither Matt Mullenweg nor Chris Pearson looks like a saint right now.”

    Is it bad for WordPress not to have saints? They’re pretty few and far between, really, and I don’t think we all need to agree with *everything* that other people in the project think. We can still work together on the things that unite us, and hopefully there are enough of those that WordPress will continue to thrive.

  22. Great write up! I didnt think anything else could be added but you did an amazing job and put it all in perspective!

  23. Definitively. One of the best articles written on the subject; and a great article/discussion on its own. I enjoyed reading it.

    It’s sad to have “childish” behaviour from someone running a billion $ business and another one running a million $ business. I think the problem could have been solved by Matt simply suggesting not to buy non-GPL licensed themes as they deprive users of their rights (that are protected by the GPL license).

    Chris is definitively wrong here, but all this drama could have been avoided. Thesis is not a dominant player anymore now, and WordPress has moved a long way since then.

  24. I can’t believe I have read this whole piece. It is long!
    This seems like a whole book!
    Thanks for this WordPress document for posterity!

  25. Superb writeup! Had no idea all of this drama was going on behind the scenes.

    My takeaway from all of this: Mullenweg wins. He is doing this for the love of WordPress, Pearson is not and that theme really shines through the entire post.

  26. I’ve using Thesis Theme v2.0 but hardly understand. not recommended for newbie. Automattic, WP, help me for built my Blog & my Business. WP more than blog, but this space I’ve BUSINESS.

  27. I’m with everyone else, impeccable job on this write up. Seriously well done. I had been wondering about the more specific details and this hammered them all out for me. Thanks!

  28. Thank you Brian, very well explained. Covering a few things the normal Joe Blogger would never cover. I’m a post status member because you focus on quality.

  29. It’s unbelievable that two entrepreneurs are acting like an enemy each others. I think in business when you start personal wars, actually you are starting to ruin your business. Anyway lets what happened in future. By the way THANK YOU for long explained article. 🙂

  30. Brilliant article Brian. Everything you write on Post Status is worth reading, but this article takes it to a new level. Clear, comprehensive and balanced discourse on an extremely complex topic. Thank you! 🙂

  31. Wow, great write-up!

    It’s funny how two people in the same industry … can represent WordPress so differently.

    Instead of asking, why, and wondering why these two guys don’t come to terms…you’re better off asking: who is john galt? lol

    I can see now why these two polar opposites will never get along, or come to terms. Sadly, only the lawyers win here (as you all have agreed).

    Will look forward to more of your posts!

    Cheers!!

  32. Every great technology industry narrative has its Wicked Witch and its Good Fairy.

    Steve Jobs and/vs Bill Gates and/vs Larry Ellison

    Intel vs AMD

    Nikola Tesla and/vs Thomas Edison

    PHP-Nuke vs PostNuke CMS (et al.)

    Indeed, the creative tension of competing visions guarantees a technology ecosystem’s survivability.

    It’s iOS vs Android yet…

    Nobody vs Blackberry.

    Why would GNU “WordPress” be anything different?

  33. Seriously, I would say that both Matt and Chris should make a patch up in such a way, that their presence should benefit the entire globe under different ways. However, Their contributions are still a lot to discuss, but it can be improved and way fast if both will come under one roof.

  34. Brian,
    This is such a wonderful piece. Well-researched and expertly written. I didn’t know that the tug had escalated until I read this. Well, only time will tell. But I truly hope that Chris and Mullenweng will one day sit down and decide to solve this beef amicably. Without resorting to litigation and rushed patents.

  35. Big props for an excellent post.

    This whole saga is just ridiculous. I’d rather see everyone just hug it out and agree to disagree; fat chance of that happening though.

  36. Brian, what a splendid piece! Thank you for enthralling us (clearly many others before me) with such a well researched and detailed article.
    I really wish that this would take an incredible turn and both Matt and Chris would surprise us with a sort of WIN-WIN solution to this. Nobody benefits from one-upmanship.

  37. I wonder if I should keep using Thesis now or I should, slowly, migrate to another framework. What’s in store for Thesis? Will it get rebranded? Will it change direction? Will it be updated?

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